Curse

MithranArkanere · Mar 16, 2010, 03:19 PM // 15:19

The point of making PvP characters is being able to make anything without having to bother about getting gear. (Once you pay or get the unlocks)
Skins come after that.

So, if a player can bring a pet with slightly different stats, then PvP characters should be able to... and they finally did.
All that's left is some items that can't be recplicated.
And that has to go to, as pet differences did.

Now, items that may drop in PvE but can't be replicated in PvP are the same.
Offhand and staves with weird combinations, req 8 and 7 items with maxed stats...

Either you block their use in PvP, or let PvP characters create them.
That kind of difference doesn't matter at all in PvE, but in PvP, all sides must be as equal as possible. And PvP characters should never be forced to purchase something from another player in order to have something a PvE player can have. If they wanted to pick drops and waste time spamming they would be in Kamadan like the rest.

Of course there could still be exceptions, like non-maxed items, festival weapons and 'toy' uniques like the ogre-slaying knife or the Istan and Shing Jea ones.

MagmaRed · Mar 16, 2010, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

And PvP characters should never be forced to purchase something from another player in order to have something a PvE player can have.

You make it sound like ALL PvE players have req 8 and req 7 items. They are rare, and not many people have them, the majority of those who do are people playing PvP. I'd be willing to bet that well over half of the people who use these items bought them. Removing them from PvP would piss off a LOT of people, more so than the nerfs to things like Ursan and Shadow Form. Providing them simply takes away the rare factor from them. May as well start letting people buy create PvP equipment for PvE characters. Just keep them unslavagable and unsellable, that way PvE characters don't have to spend time/money getting good weapon sets.

Desert Rose · Mar 16, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Either you block their use in PvP, or let PvP characters create them.

That given me idea:
Simply make all max weapons/off hands req. 9 while in PvP, and change the req. for non max weapons/off hand accordingly.
That would make all players equal, PvP characters don't have to buy costly items from other players to stay competitive, and PvE characters don't need to have perfect or near perfect equitment to be useable in PvP.

Perfected Shadow · Mar 16, 2010, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Looks liek the moral is that the virtual economy, rarities and other bullshit are more important than pvp fairness.

FoxBat · Mar 17, 2010, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

That given me idea:
Simply make all max weapons/off hands req. 9 while in PvP, and change the req. for non max weapons/off hand accordingly.

This is the sort of thing GW2 will probably feature. I'm not confident on them being able to implement this in GW1, since there is absolutely nothing like it currently.

Shadowhaze · Mar 17, 2010, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

The buck stops at q8 only because you can ALREADY get those in PvE. q7 max insc do not exist.

A UI to specify lower powers would be cool but it seems like too much work at this stage. So I'd settle for max PvP items lowered to q8. Or retroactively nerf q8 maxes to q9, lord knows Mo/Ws don't need to be as good as they are, but that will just have people scrambling over q7/al15s.

Everyone is SUPPOSED to have the same thing, it's called even competition, it's the point of PvP character creation.

Again, bypassing the economy/market entirely is the POINT of PvP characters.

Agree. Agree also to either block use in pvp or allow pvp chars to create them also.

Darth The Xx · Mar 17, 2010, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

You make it sound like ALL PvE players have req 8 and req 7 items. They are rare, and not many people have them, the majority of those who do are people playing PvP. I'd be willing to bet that well over half of the people who use these items bought them. Removing them from PvP would piss off a LOT of people, more so than the nerfs to things like Ursan and Shadow Form. Providing them simply takes away the rare factor from them. May as well start letting people buy create PvP equipment for PvE characters. Just keep them unslavagable and unsellable, that way PvE characters don't have to spend time/money getting good weapon sets.

Because the only use they have is in PvP not in PvE. Who runs Mo/W in PvE .. seriously?

Just read what you write before you write it. What you are essentially saying is that its ok for somebody to have an advantage in PvP if they have more money. Grow up if it really bothers you that much just slap a small TRP/Balth Faction/ZCoin unlock cost on these items then its like every other pvp item.

Yes you can buy pretty much every single other item on a PvP char including Torms/Crysta's/Obby armour and all that stuff that makes PvErs leet via the same system. Hence if it had an unlock cost this wouldn't be a problem would it?

*lemming* · Mar 17, 2010, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Alternative option: nerf tactics stances.

Neo Atomisk · Mar 17, 2010, 05:07 AM // 05:07

q8=15ar and /signed

DoomFrost · Mar 17, 2010, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Better idea is that any equipment attained in PvE should be auto adjusted to match PvP equipment. i.e. a shield with a low requirement of 7 mastery with an AL of 14-15 would be boosted to a requirement of 9 with an AL of 16 just like a PvP created shield. Such would only happen in PvP much like how skills are changed to their PvP versions when you enter a PvP outpost.

I figure create an environmental effect that applies for all PvP missions or just amend the existing PvP effect with: "While you're in this area all equipment is matched according to the rules set by the Zaishen Order. Equipment will have (PvP) by their name with their stats adjusted accordingly." Or some other better wording.

And about trading, equipment would be shown in their original form in the trade window.

MithranArkanere · Mar 17, 2010, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

You make it sound like ALL PvE players have req 8 and req 7 items.

At least one has. One is one too much, PRECISELY because things are closer to balance when EVERYBODY has access to them.

If at least one has them, and not everyone can have them. Then that must be fixed.
PvP-only players can have them, but ONLY by getting them from PvE players, and we can't have that either.
So, either they go, or PvP characters can copy them too.
It's not like a maxed req8 inscribable shield is hard to get and rare, those things drop blue a lot around Kourna.
Now, getting a rare skin with also req 8 or 7 it's a different thing. And getting a PvP character being able to make a PvP item won't change how rare the PvE version is.

FoxBat · Mar 17, 2010, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

It's not like a maxed req8 inscribable shield is hard to get and rare, those things drop blue a lot around Kourna.

I have more than enough cash and can't even find the damn things.

I hear q7/al15s are also going through the roof, likely due to the weakness spam from the new blood templates.

MithranArkanere · Mar 17, 2010, 09:22 PM // 21:22

You won't find any if you look for a special skin in HM.

But if you play for a while, in NM, you'll eventually get maxed req8 a blue name shield or focus.
With foci is much easier, and with weapons it's way harder, though.

If you are picky with the skin and rarity color, you'll definitely take WAAAY much longer.

Axel Zinfandel · Mar 17, 2010, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Are these things really causing as much of a rift in the PvP community as you people are leading me to believe?

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Mar 17, 2010, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Update March 17 2010

-New +5 attribute point quest for PvE characters.
-Quest requires you to win 1 GvG match in a daily AT.

Suck it; like wading into PvP to get an advantage in PvE?

Shayne Hawke · Mar 18, 2010, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuildWarsPenguin

Update March 17 2010

-New +5 attribute point quest for PvE characters.
-Quest requires you to win 1 GvG match in a daily AT.

Suck it; like wading into PvP to get an advantage in PvE?

Snowball ATs count as GvGs, and five extra attribute points doesn't do dick in builds that already run 12-9-9 or 12-10-8. I am okay with this.

I agree with the ideas that those shields with lower ratings and such should either not exist or be usable in PvP, or that they be available to everyone. q8/16AL shields probably aren't so common or cheap that everyone is going to get access to them, which skews the playing field. It's not even like an issue of having or not having the option unlocked; the option just isn't there in the first place.

That said, this all seems rather trivial.

Tenebrae · Mar 18, 2010, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

At least one has. One is one too much, PRECISELY because things are closer to balance when EVERYBODY has access to them.

Everbody has access to them , everybody can buy them in GTOB or post a thread somewhere . The only thing where is not available is in PvP item creation panel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

PvP-only players can have them, but ONLY by getting them from PvE players, and we can't have that either.

Yeah and PvP players cant play PvE content while PvE players can play PvP content , that isnt fair right ?....... it is balanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

So, either they go, or PvP characters can copy them too.
It's not like a maxed req8 inscribable shield is hard to get and rare, those things drop blue a lot around Kourna.

First you say that ppl cant access them , now you say is not hard to get one of those .... contradiction ftw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Now, getting a rare skin with also req 8 or 7 it's a different thing. And getting a PvP character being able to make a PvP item won't change how rare the PvE version is.

LMAO. Thats the definition of RARE , something UNCOMMON , something you dont see everyday . If you allow PvP chars to create those shields , they STOP BEING RARE lol .

Like i said before , im not against logical progression down in req/armor , like r8/15 al and r7/14 but allow them to create r8/16 ? nah , never , hell no. 1 Armor is the main diff between rare and common and it doesnt matter much in pvp so pvp ppl shouldnt be bitching about it.

Want a rare ? work for money and buy it , thats it.

Reverend Dr · Mar 18, 2010, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Alternative option: nerf tactics stances.

still doesn't address the core issue that only primary attributes have passive effects, yet tactics (I suppose motivation and command) has a passive +8 armor

also yes, get rid of tactics stances

Shadowhaze · Mar 18, 2010, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Technically not everyone can buy them...well they can but it's dependant on their ingame money. And not everyone farms a great deal. Some don't have the ridiculous funds needed to buy some of those items, therefore there is an advantage for the wealthy who do play pvp with such items vs those who don't own virtual wealth.

MagmaRed · Mar 18, 2010, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowhaze

Technically not everyone can buy them...well they can but it's dependant on their ingame money. And not everyone farms a great deal. Some don't have the ridiculous funds needed to buy some of those items, therefore there is an advantage for the wealthy who do play pvp with such items vs those who don't own virtual wealth.

Balthazar Faction = zkeys.
Zkeys = money.

It is not hard for PvP players to obtain money, and it doesn't take huge sums of money for req 8 shields. If you want a rare skin it may cost a lot, but it really isn't out of reach of the average player. I have found quite a few req 8 shields playing PvE, and realized they were common enough that I just merchant them unless it is a rare skin. Finding a seller may be hard, but the cost is not a huge issue. If they were costing 100K+armbraces I might be inclined to agree with you, but I doubt you'd have trouble finding them for less than 50k if you could track down a seller. I never looked for a seller though, so it may be easier than I think.